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Jetson
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
10-15-02 21:47
No 368927
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Good
clean fun... (goiter and geez)
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72 60mg psuedo pills(containing all the nasties that one could possibly
imagine- including but not limited to -tripolidine, povidone, polyethelyne
glycol, methocrystaline cellulose....) grinded to a fine powder via
GE's coffee grinder(gotta love that fuker, that's GE for bringing good
things to life) anywho, ground to fine powder then placed in a
wide mouth canning jar and at least three times the amount of tetra poured on
top(jetson says at least because jetson probably used a good six times) then
the jar/pills/tetra swirled for, and swij timed this, 14 seconds then poured
through a single presaturated with clean tetra coffee filter, only
pouring through as much that will filter through as you pour otherwise the
tetra and shite get a chance to puddle up and reconfuk your pill mass.
after the tetra was poured off and the filter squeezed with jetson's fingers
until relatively dry(i.e. no more tetra dripping from the filter) the filter
with the pill mass was opened, layed flat, the pill mass crumbled to help
evaporation and the whole thing set aside to dry. once dry swij put the
now powdered pills back into the same wide mouth jar that he used the first
time around(the jar wasn't washed out or anything but made sure that no tetra
was present and that it's dry. the reason jetson did this is because
there might be some psuedo left in that jar clinging to it, very little,
granted but....) then 4 times the amount of denatured alcohol is added,
the mixture swilred off and on for a total of 4m23sec.(yup timed) then let to
stand. after the mix seperates as much as it seems it's going to then
it's poured off through 3 coffee filters and a piece of cotton which has been
strategicly stuffed in the neck of the funnel(not tightly though, just enough
so that nothing can get around it and all has to pass through it). the
filtrate was then evaped in a pyrex dish and once psuedo started forming
around the edges the solution was then once again transfered into a small
jar(baby food jar? about that size anyway) the pyrex dish was then scraped
clean of all the psuedo that stayed back and added to the hot solution in the
smaller jar. the solution in the smaller jar was then swirled until all
the added psuedo dissolved and then loosely covered with a larger lid and
left to come to room temp. after the solution cools to room temp and
some crystals formed it was popped into the freezer and left overnight.
upon checking the solution this morning jetson found nice clean psuedo
crystals just waiting to get filtered out. out of a possible 4.32grams
jetson got back 3.8 heh..... not too shabby eh
C.Y.A.
- your nuts are showing...
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goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
10-15-02 22:08
No 368930
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now
for step two
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take that 3.8g and perform a standard A/B extraction on it with water and
toluene. If it turns into jello, then it isn't clean. If you put
it on aluminum foil and it leaves a residue when it burns, then it's not
clean.
All
paths are the same: they lead nowhere
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Jetson
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
10-15-02 22:14
No 368932
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nope
no jello.......
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no jello here. swij has been using this method for a while now with no
problems. notice the keys are the tetra and a complete recrystallization
not a precipitation of a solid a recrystallization. and yes it burns
clean.
C.Y.A.
- your nuts are showing...
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goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
10-15-02 22:33
No 368936
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so
you are performing an A/B then
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right?
All
paths are the same: they lead nowhere
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VideoEditor
(Hive Bee)
10-15-02 23:30
No 368960
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Been
there works good
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Hey Jetson,
When we started "Straight to Bee" the very first version I gave to
GEEZE to test was based on tetra. There were alot of good merits to it. It
was abandoned because Naptha worked better for our purpose/goal and tetras
future is being regulated away. So stock up.
Real
Men Don't Preview Their Edits
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geezmeister
(Bee of the Month)
10-15-02 23:57
No 368968
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And
I've used the tertra
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Tetra alone, in fact, without alcohol. Based with NaOH, pulled with
tetra. Got clean freebase crystals. Worked. Harder to do and more
timeconsuming, and not as OTC as Straight to Bee. The guys at the parts store
are hip to TCE and to the acetone in the body shop section. No one looks
twice when you buy naptha.
You are extracting white sixties, my personal favorite, and pills which I
grab when available. I recall someone nearby doing an extraction of these
same pills with no tetra and no alcohol, after a single xylene boil, basing
with NaOH and extracting with naptha. Return came in at 90%, very clean
freebase crystals. Process not completely ironed out, particularly with the
120 time bombs, but it sure works with the white 60's, without water,
acetone, or alcohol, and without gakk coming through. Simpler than you might
think. Still some questions to answer on the process though.
Power to you on the tetra and alky extract. Did you use a dry alcohol? The
white 60's (other than one particular brand) use the PEG as a coating and it
is not a terrible problem if you are aware of its presence. You might have
less success with the 120's which have a great deal more PEG in them (at
least the generics.)
If the tetra works as advertised by Ware to rid the PEG from these pills,
they should pull with dry alcohol without much cellulose coming over.
Purifying by slow crystal growth is a plus. Much better solution than
evaporation and flashing, and it does not surprise that the pseudo crystals
melt cleanly on foil.
Nothing per se in the process clears the tripolidine. You may have some,
perhaps it remained in the alcohol. Let us know how the final product turns
out.
Congrats on combining a couple of techniques in a way to get a clean
precursor.
Mostly
harmless
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wareami
(Hive Addict)
10-16-02 00:57
No 368989
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PEG
removal!
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Tetra will not get anybee past the Dry-Matrix, which is why he advocates the
use of a separate Phase in extraction. Your Choice of methods here!
Different alcohols seem to produce different results!
This is Ware selection of pills is important.
Nothing has compared to a tetrawash followed by an alky extract except water
extraction and we all know ware that'll get ya on todays OTC's!
This has only worked on the 60's that are not composed of the dry-matrix
formulations.
Bees can Boil solvents all they want and Bees Can do pre-rxn A/B's all they
want.
When time/steps and/or the amount of solvents is a consideration this method
leaves smiles on faces and raises the yield factors/quality for even the
newest of newbees!
So Ibee says that the VeteranBees would do well to stop picking it apart and
just do it!
It brings a smile to Ibee's face everytime, and it's Ibee's only way of
contributing much of what was given him!
He stays on the research end to stay abreast of changes that affect all bees
because he remembers what it was like failing all the time!
You Dobees that have been around know what goes into all that
experimentation/research and circumventing ways around the foilers!
Ibee may not always be in a position to pass the successes down and he relies
on the more experienced to refine what works today and carry the torches of
success to all bees!
As for tetra falling by the Wayside, Ibee says it's unlikely!
This substance is the alternative to ozone depletion and is a recommended
substitute by The EPA in many products!!!
Work it in any way you can and at the very least you'll bee relatively PEG
and Polymer free until the Pharm formulators find another stumper!
Since this subject was brought up, Ibee will begin searching for other areas
of aquistion for this as OTC as can bee, just like he did in the beginning
since aquistion for all bees is an important step!
Jetson: Good on Ya!!! Ibee's happy with SWIJ's level of success and
incorporation toward better and more honey!
 
Peace  of
the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
Everything
Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
ô¿ôWareami
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platcat
(Hive Bee)
10-16-02 08:58
No 369180
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feedtock
importance
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swip has found thru failed extracts times are changing again.feed is
critical.white 60s are comin out that dont pull well.lookin into why.several
different reformulations have appeared here.however swip has also found some
with few inactives that pull well.shop around, small chain generics are
a deal sometimes to the discriminating shopper!several batchs of combo
polymers were tried and failed all known methods.Swip came across a clerk
with a cart full of named deconds pulled from shelves and replacing with
new.they were not expired!!HMMMMM>=new formula.?Reds here suck now.Kidz
need to recoil and defoil!PC 
Theres
a reason for all of this but I dont know what it is?
Greg Graffin
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BenWiFFen
(Line Monitor)
10-16-02 14:09
No 369213
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Don't
get the title
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There's pop/outs on the market that Tetra isn't even needed. At one time any
old alcohol would do the trick. I bet your doing every post rxn cleanseing
possible. Unless your fond of yellow gear.
Never
ride faster then your angle can fly.
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wareami
(Hive Addict)
10-16-02 15:07
No 369218
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Recoil
and DeFOIL :•þ
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It can be safely assumed that periodic restocking will happen as a result of
newer formulations, successful research on thare end and one very important
gauge they are apparently using. The successes reported by Bees!
One batch (3.6g)in the past year has left the Kidz scratching thare headz!
That was the dry-matrix 120's. They recovered 1.8g thanx to Geez's sage
advice and only after abandoning thare limited knowledgebase a month after
they began their assault on those devils.
Once Bitten Twice Shy is not a common trait of the Kidz!
Research and Devilopement has been initiated once again and hopefully the
newer formulations have been unleashed so they can kill a few birds with one
stone!
Once aGIN, they plan on leaving no Tern Unstoned!!!!
It would be a gigantic help if bees would start listing "inactives"
that are common with pills found in thare locale!
Much of the successes to date have encompassed researching the individual
components!
Peace of
the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
Everything
Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
ô¿ôWareami
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goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
10-16-02 16:31
No 369230
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the
formulations haven't changed much
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The 30s around here haven't changed much in over 3 years. Considering
this area is really close to a very large distributor that supplies most of
the southeast, I find it surprising that you are having so much trouble
cleaning pills that you have to resort to using brake cleaner.
All
paths are the same: they lead nowhere
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Jetson
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
10-16-02 18:24
No 369245
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....
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wow, jetson didn't start this thread to start trouble or anything, just
wanted to let geez know how long exactly to wash with the tet. at least
how jetson does it. VE- you say to stock up, well consider swij
stocked, especially since the tetra can be washed and brought back to a
pretty clean state of being. but the tetra swij gets isn't exactly
brake cleaner either. it's used in alot of other fields guys.
it's out there.
"When time/steps and/or the amount of solvents is a consideration this
method leaves smiles on faces and raises the yield factors/quality for even
the newest of newbees!"-ware
exactly. all the other methods for extraction are fukin excellent don't
get swij wrong, that's not swij's purpose for this thread but when it
comes down to it swij'd much rather spend a few minutes than a couple
hrs. as far as the alcohol goes jetson will say this. he tried
the same said proceedure using isopropyll alcohol once as it was the only
thing he had on hand(was only 70%) and it didn't work out too well.
he'd advise strongly against it's use. at least any that's not
anhydrous. the denatured swij used wasn't probably anhydrous
either(jetson didn't dry it any way and it's only from a hardware store so
it's hard to tell) but he can guarantee it was drier than that funkin iso
shite. damn what a waste of effort among other things that was.
geez- as far as the final product goes jetson says that after a couple more
hrs. he'll know but probably won't be back on here til tommorrow so....
he'll make sure he saves ya a bit
but anyway, just remember.... It's all in good clean fun...
C.Y.A.
- your nuts are showing...
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geezmeister
(Bee of the Month)
10-16-02 18:49
No 369247
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cleaning
those fan motors, eh?
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Jetson: Do keep those electric motors, and your fans clean. Very
important. But that stuff sells at the same store around here. I've been
staying away from that store since I lost it with a clerk who wanted to know
why I needed the acetone. Just a lowering-of-the-profile issue for me.
You made the point about time, and frankly Geez had always thought "short"
to be a couple of minutes, not a few seconds. Its perspective, and a problem
I have encountered reading Wareamiese. My own built in bias against
recognition of the obvious. Being too literal and left brained. So thanks for
the explanation. And don't mind Joe, he's just slummin' here at Comedy
Central.
Mostly
harmless
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Jetson
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
10-16-02 20:49
No 369286
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roflmao...
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damn you guys kill me....
but yeah that dust and shite that covers all jetsons electronics really gets
his allergies going too. damn, now swij gots ta go get some allergy
meds...
C.Y.A.
- your nuts are showing...
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dwarfer
(Hive Addict)
10-16-02 20:53
No 369287
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again
with the boiling solvents!
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Do it in a steel pipe, no more than 80% full, immersed in boiling water.
dwarfer
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Jetson
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
10-16-02 21:15
No 369294
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eh?
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say what? you lost me there kinda. kinda not. you mean the tetra
wash??? come on dwarf help a bee out here ya got me thinking now....
C.Y.A.
- your nuts are showing...
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geezmeister
(Bee of the Month)
10-16-02 21:39
No 369300
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I
don't think so
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Jetson...I think he be digging at the Geez a bit about being slow doing
something I said I would with a chunk of pipe I can't find and a mixer they
had in the town on the other side of the river...don't worry if you don't get
it all, its in Dwarferese. Requires tequila to comprehend, part of the
translator fuel.
Mostly
harmless
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dwarfer
(Hive Addict)
10-16-02 22:38
No 369315
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nah
I just fucked up
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I just saw some ref to boiling xylene and had my usual knee jerk "whadda
bunchafools" reaction to it and did the arcane post above.
I coulda just edited it away: doing so would have left your responses
hanging, though: this way I take the deserved heat.
Do NOT do the tetra route in the pipe: it is counterproductive, at least it
was in some way early experiments by Uncle Ho some aeons ago..
==========
As long as I've started to blab, though, i hafta disagree with something
W(TF)AI said..
personally, I think the hot tone wash is the first step for any route,
whether it's then into the tetra, or Tequila Geeze's dry basification route.
===================
By the further way, have I mentioned stocking up
on Ephedra lately??
And a 12 inch 2" pipe 'nipple",
with one pipe end cap,
and the other with a reducer fitting
to take a needle valve fitting?
And be sure to get some scotch pads
to hold back the powder
so the pressure can relieve
thru the valve without blocking it.
If you heat a piece of pipe,
you can melt some disks just the right size..
Another end cap you should get
and drill a hole in it for a schrader or presta valve.
You'll want to rinse the powder again
with your favorite NP:
put it on and pressurize the NP
back thru the Scott Pads and valve.
Wait: did I get "off topic"?
MY bad....
dwarfer
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Jetson
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
10-17-02 19:43
No 369624
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ok,
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yup that's what swij thought you were getting at
jetson hasn't had the pleasure of the sspp yet and thinks maybe it's due time
for a try. not that he's not happy with the tetra just wants to get as
many techniques(notice the fancy french q spelling there )
under his belt as he can for the extraction of goods from pills. don't
happen to know off hand the name of the post its under do ya dwarf?
off
to the fse swij goes.....
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Scottydog
(Hive Addict)
10-18-02 04:01
No 369787
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Jetson
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dwarfer: "pressure cooker steam extractor deja
vu?" (Stimulants)
That trusty bookmark function...
I believe he also has another thread with pictures of the apparatus or did?
___________
Refuse/Resist
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ChemoSabe
(Hive Addict)
10-18-02 04:12
No 369789
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The
Dwarlock
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Damn!
I can't find it but I once found a thread of Worlock's that was about a
handay dandy little pressurized hydrogenator "bomb" that was
assembled from common OTC items and there was a picture of it too. But I
can't for the life of me locate it now!
I'm not sure if it was in fact the mythical "Dworlock" device which
came about as a result of the combined gery matter of both Dwarfer and
Worlock but whatever it was it sure looked cool.
Sans
dookie
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cthulhujr
(Hive Bee)
10-18-02 06:03
No 369818
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worlocks
fedrogen
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Like that one?, there's a later version someplace. Unfortunatley, swim
doesn't have a pic of "Dwarlock, D-VI, water filter pressurized 3 cell
electo whoozit"
Iä-R'lyeh!
Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
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Jetson
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
10-18-02 22:14
No 370010
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oh
scotty...
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scotty, dog, jetson helped with that post bud. but thanks
there, that isn't the one jetson was looking for though
he's looking for dwarfer's original post about his pressurized pipe
superheated solvent or pp/ss or something. swij used the search tool
that's found here and came up with a few good hits so he thinks he got what
he needed. also remembered how fukin much dwarfer kills him...
man's got wit i tells ya. anywho. jetson thinks he has one of
those nifty little whozit's under his sink.
C.Y.A.
- your nuts are showing...
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ChemoSabe
(Hive Addict)
10-19-02 01:01
No 370055
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Fred
Rogen
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I think that's it cathoolhoojr only I'd never seen this diagram and I
remember an actual photo of it.
Sans
dookie
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BenWiFFen
(Line Monitor)
10-19-02 01:05
No 370058
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Bee
of the month..
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Are you evaping the naptha.. To get your f/b? I take it you don't live in a
down stairs apt. Trouble buying acetone (funny looks) that's odd. I've found
acetone to have more uses around the pad then naptha unless your a varnish
maker. Just an inquirey not an ambush.
Not a
spelling Bee.
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Jetson
(Hive Bee / Eraser)
10-19-02 19:03
No 370227
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ben...
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ben- what naptha are you speaking of? if you mean the np in dwarfer's
post then no it's only used to was the gups in a ppss afajk. acetone's
the funkin shite but swij doesn't have to worry about that anymore. a
friend of his wives is a beatician so she not only gets it without looks she
gets a discount on it! hah!!
anyone up for cosmatology school 
C.Y.A.
- your nuts are showing...
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peregrine
(Stranger)
10-27-02 05:10
No 373098
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peg
still learning
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How do I know if pills are dry matrix or not.What about the red generic 30s
from w.w with only pseudoephedrine as an active?Would a tetra wash with an
alky pull be enough?
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geezmeister
(Bee of the Month)
10-27-02 07:08
No 373124
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red
hots
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SWIG gets the best yields with the least work on brand name and generic red
hots by the Straight to Bee Method. Done sloppily, he runs 80% yields, done
carefully, nearly 90%.
The method is even better with white sixties.
There is no magic to this extraction method. It is not difficult. You do have
to learn it.
It may be possible to get as clean a precursor with an alcohol extraction as
you can with an a/b, but SWIG imagines that it would be a lot more work.
Usable, yes. Cleanest? Not IMHO.
Just
Mostly
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wareami
(Hive Addict)
10-27-02 16:22
No 373224
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Dry
Matrix
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Currently...the dry matrix formulation is indicated by these listed
inactives:
•Hydroxypropyl Methycellulose
•Microcrystalline Cellulose
•Magnesium Stearate
This is what is listed as the active components in the patent for Timed
Release formulations!
But since it was found to be effective against extraction methods, it's been
incorporated in regular strength pills as well!
Geez is absolutely correct and his advice should be followed!
Work towards obtaining good A/Bing techniques and skills!
These skills will seldom fail! But never underestimate what the opposition is
about to throw at Bees Next!
Mark Ibee's Words....Tetra will be a necessity as soon as they lay the
groundwork! This is merely a prediction. Whole industry's rarely get upset
without a good cause. It's impossible to guess what is up a magicians
sleeve...but you can generally bank on the fact that He's got something UP
THARE!
Tetra is still successful following a denatured alky pull with good yield
provided the Dry Matrix is not present!
When the DM is present, tetra works, although milky in alky indicating
something is coming over, but the dry matrix is deactivated by the tetra and
can be used in rxn and the final A/B is ware you'll confront what came over!
A/Bing with dual solvents is a must and those necessary A/Bing skills that
Ibee endorses are also a must when utilizing this technique of cookery!
HI/RP is the only rxn method used in this scenario!
Birchers may also find it effective with the dry-matrix pills.
Those foilers that we all love to hate know for a fact that Ibee is close to
a solution with various Tetra compositions and there only hope is to make it
unavailable to the general public! IMHO!
StumbleBee and FumbleBee have hit a sore spot, and that fact can't bee
ignored!
Ibee's only hope is that the right combination is arrived at before Tetra is
completely yanked! Ibee predicts that once that happens a new formulation
will surface!
A little tweek here and a little tweek thare...!
PEG is being disected all the way back to it's root, 1,2, Ethanediol and the
different weights play a big part in it's composition and solubility factors.
Finding the right Chemical compound made up of Tetra and the Unknown(not
completely...but for safety reasons...)is all that remains!
Had Ibee known that the research end would have been such a long, arduous,
tedious process, he'd have been content relying on what others handed down!
He's been bitten by the BUG and won't rest until a solution is revealed!
Others insights are of paramount importance and Ibee wouldn't bee here if
weren't for DoBees contributions!
Keep it cumming!
Peace of
the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
Everything
Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
ô¿ôWareami
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geezmeister
(Bee of the Month)
10-27-02 16:52
No 373228
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Hey
Jetson!
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Hey Jetson! What WERE those yields? How did the post reaction workup work
out? Results?
I can't let the Ware have the last word in this thread, as long as we are
talking white 60's. When it come to white sixties there is one superior way
of extraction, and that is Straight to Bee. Period, end of paragraph. It
matters not what you like to do, its a question of yield and purity. I will
take a pure 90+% yield in freebase crystals done with solvents that raise no
eyebrows any day...and everyday.
Other pills may fall another way. For white 60's, the STB is the killer
method.
Hell, you'd think I invented it. Guess I'm just a religious convert!
Alas! I fear my postings on this board have harmed me. I keep seeing these
tweakers buying up my generic 120's and the stores are out of VM&P
naptha. Big Bob asks about phosphorous acid, and JP speaks of HI by
phosphoric. So I got another bee in my backyard, eh? And anonymous? I'll be
damned. (I probably already was, anyway---at least as the old lady tells it.)
Just
Mostly
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wareami
(Hive Addict)
10-27-02 20:24
No 373247
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Hey
Jetson...Over Here!!!
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Geez...you keep Ibee in stitches! He loves that!
Ibee isn't seeking the last word, but since His yields are equally 90%+ on
the ONE formulation, White 60's with trip and POV in the pre-rxn extraction,
and the final workup is equally at an astonishing 90%+, With zero wait caused
by POV in the final A/B. This is done consistantly using 1g p-fed .75g MBRP
and 2g I2 from tinc!
Ibee's UPtime after performing this rather routine practice and Bio-Assaying
is 4 Days off of .9g meth which was produced by refluxing at 12+ hours.
ZERO PEG! ZERO Triprolidine!
Knowing the integrity and authenticity behind The GeezMeister leaves Ibee
with a HIGH level of respect for this bee!
So don't get Ibee wrong!
This thread has the potential to become the longest running thread in this
forum since Ibee has no shortage of Last Words! And Neither does Geez!
This isn't a competition and shouldn't be viewed in that light! This is all
about what works! Until Ibee has a chance to set aside some other
experimentation and devote some time toward the STB method...he would never
knock it!
Hence the advice toward bees following Geez's advice!
And even if it's outcome leaves Ibee short on yield or quality, His first
suspicion would be blamed on USER error until that is proven to not be the
case! Then he would go to the author with his concern and findings for
adjustments!
Peace of
the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
Everything
Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
ô¿ôWareami
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peregrine
(Stranger)
10-27-02 23:54
No 373355
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dry
matrix
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 Just
when I was getting confident.wah.these
red hots have all those nasty things.I understand a basic A/B extraction,but
not sure about using duel solvents.Time to learn,learn,learn.If what you say
about tetra is trueI better stock up.My local auto store just happens to be
having a sale on tetra.Maybe becouse there not going to stock it anymore.So
what I think I understand is a tetra bath with an alky pull is good enought
until after the reaction.Now I need to hit the books and learn how to use
duel solvent A/B extraction.Is red bottle Iso best for alky pull? I
will succeed.You bees rock!Thanks,thanks and thanks.O did I say thanks?Just
in case I did'nt thanks.
One humble student.
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peregrine
(Stranger)
10-28-02 00:40
No 373376
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red
hots
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Maybe I should look hard for the white 60s.Is the only active p/e?I want to
be sure I'm ready and learn everything possible.Let me see If I can find the
s.t.b. method your talking about.Thanks for the help.
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wareami
(Hive Addict)
10-28-02 03:17
No 373435
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SWIP!!!
Not "I"
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Just a word to the wise!
Ibee is advising all bees to stock up, just as that tall character Dwarfer is
advising bees to stock up on ephedra!
The signs are everyware!
VideoEditor's most excellent write-up can bee found here VideoEditor: "Universal Extraction Technique:
Straight to Bee" (Stimulants)
Ibee stands behind it 100% in spite of his Off The Beaten Pathwayz methods of
extraction.
The red bottle will work for alky on the dry matrix. It's best to dry
anything coming in contact with the drymatrix pillmass!
Thare's no need to dry Tetra cause it hates water and contains none!
When starting out, all newbees will be doing themselves a favor by READING
until they drop! It promotes safety and increases the chances that the subtle
areas will be absorbed and understood!
Then when posting about areas of concern, they will be better prepared to ask
questions in such a way as to get quick and multiple responses!
As long as Ibee and the Kidz are around, they are always willing to answer
questions regarding the egull method.
A new additive has made it's way into the Kidz Tetra. It is rust colored
wareas before all his used tetra has been clear opaque with white polys
floating when swirled!
Ibee hasn't ID'ed this substance yet, but the tetra is obviously capturing
most of it. Also another substance believed to be of the Glucose family has
made it's way past the tetra wash and alky pulls and can be seen in the evap
dish. It is caramel colored. It stays separate from the pinwheels and is
estimated to have reduced yield by 5-10%.
Ibee said the Kidz will try to separate it before evap with tone and get back
to ya'll with the results!
Peace of
the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
Everything
Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
ô¿ôWareami
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goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
10-28-02 05:11
No 373455
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wtf?
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Currently...the
dry matrix formulation is indicated by these listed inactives:
•Hydroxypropyl Methycellulose
•Microcrystalline Cellulose
•Magnesium Stearate
This is what is listed as the active components in the patent for Timed
Release formulations!
WTF?! Every pseudoephedrine and ephedrine pill contains those
ingredients. Hell, even tylenol and aleve contain those
ingredients. Magnesium Stearate is just a pill press lubricant and
nothing to worry about. MCC is just a compressing agent that holds
the pill together. The only thing you have to worry about is the
methocel, and trying to claim dry cleaning fluid will be the only thing that
works on it is stating that you don't understand the complexity of the
heigher weights of methocel. Methocel wraps around the pseudoephedrine
in time release formulas so that your body has to take longer to get at the
actives. 30mg pills are made with lower weight methocel variations that
don't encapsulate the molecule, so a single methanol pull is usually
sufficient to remove the active. With 60's and 120's, it is necessary
to actually dissolve the methocel as well to first free the encased
pseudoephedrine from the methocel, and then work it up like 30s. Why
did you think people starting off with water extracts on time release pills
were getting such better yeilds from their following alcohol pulls?
Another good way to do this is to do the first pulls with warm methanol,
chill this as cold as possible, filter out the crashed methocel, and
evaporate. Do this again with IPA and you will have a good return of
extremely clean pseudoephedrine. Boil in xylene, basify, and extract
with xylene.
All
paths are the same: they lead nowhere
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wareami
(Hive Addict)
10-28-02 10:35
No 373533
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Tsk
Tsk Tsk!
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GoiterJoe: This is meant in no way to be an insult!
You already know better than to argue the facts with Ibee!
His facts are backed up by documentation coupled with "On Hands
Experience".
White 60's Actifool knockoffs(generic)do not contain those three in combination
as listed.
Ya better get ya a few boxes while they still exist!
Hell...I don't even feel like fetching "The Facts" to prove your
statement incorrect and misleading!
But to show you Ibee hasn't changed a bit...Hold On!
Ibee does take the time to understand what others fail to!
Reading Patents sucks and you should really try it sometime! Especially
before making misinforming statements!
From day one MCC has never been present in Ibee's pre-rxn feed!
Hmmmmm...wonder why that is?
Ibee
cannot and will not offer suggestions about boiling flammable chemicals to a
newbee for something as trivial as making a recreational substance!
Abstract
Pseudoephedrine hydrochloride extended-release tablets including a sustained
release hydroxypropylmethylcellulose matrix and a microcrystalline cellulose
disintegrant formed by a dry mixed, direct compression method.
Ibee
merely includes the lubricant(mag stear) because it is used to form the
matrix with the disintegrant.
Also as Ibee stated...this patent relates to time-released formulations and
was invented and applied for under those stipulations. You yourself know it's
used across the board in all different strengths/brands...but one that Ibee
knows of and he's been telling bees for three months to stock up on the White
60's containing trip and POV while bees were still teabagging the 120's!
Here's the kicker:
DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENTS
In a preferred embodiment of the present invention a combination comprising
at least one active ingredient together with hydroxypropylmethylcellulose
(HPMC) and microcrystalline cellulose is directly compressed to form tablets.
Preferably, the composition is prepared by dry mixing the ingredients.
Preferably, one of the active ingredients is pseudoephedrine or a
pharmacologically acceptable salt thereof, such as pseudoephedrine
hydrochloride or pseudoephedrine sulfate, or a mixture thereof. More
preferred is pseudoephedrine hydrochloride. Preferably about 15-25% of the
active ingredient, based on the final weight of the tablets, is used; more
preferably, about 16-22%; most preferably about 17-20%. In a preferred
embodiment, the amount of active ingredient used is that which is sufficient
to produce tablets, each comprising about 120 mg of active ingredient. In an
alternate embodiment, the amount of active utilized is sufficient to produce
tablets comprising about 60 mg of active ingredient each.
Preferred lubricants include sodium stearyl fumarate and metal stearates,
alone or in combination with stearic acid. More preferred lubricants include
magnesium stearate, zinc stearate, calcium stearate, and mixtures thereof,
alone or in combination with stearic acid. Preferably about 0.2-2%, by final
weight of the tablets, of lubricant is used, more preferably about
0.25-1.25%. For example, where magnesium stearate is the sole lubricant, the
tablets preferably comprise about 0.3-0.5% lubricant; where a magnesium
stearate-stearic acid mixture is used as the lubricant, about 0.25% magnesium
stearate may be mixed with as much as about 1% stearic acid.
In the preferred embodiment mixing procedure, the active ingredient, e.g.,
pseudoephedrine, the glidant, e.g., colloidal silica and the filler, e.g.,
dicalcium phosphate dihydrate, are passed through a security screen into a
clean and dry blender, preferably in the order indicated. After mixing for 5
minutes, this mix is milled through a clean and dry mill equipped with a
stainless steel, drilled hole screen, into a clean suitable container.
The microcrystalline cellulose disintegrant, the above milled mixture and the
hydroxypropylmethylcellulose are then passed in the order indicated through a
fme mesh security screen and into a clean and dry blender. They are mixed for
15 minutes, following which a lubricant, e.g., magnesium stearate is screened
into the blender and mixed in for an additional 3 minutes.
After the foregoing combination has been produced with thorough mixing, it is
directly compressed to form tablets, i.e. any solid form, e.g., caplets.
These are then coated with a pharmaceutically acceptable coating. Preferred
coatings include cellulose ether-based coatings, such as HPMC-based coatings.
A preferred coating is Opadry, produced by Colorcon, Inc. of West Point, Pa.
Preferably about 0.54% by weight of coating is used (in terms of weight added
to the uncoated tablet), more preferably about 1-2%. A wax, e.g., an edible
wax such as carnauba wax may also be applied as a second coating thereover.
GJ: It
is especially disheartening that you chose to disagree with Ibee, the
original source that uncovered what was going on when it went down! But Ibee
forgives you as always!
As you will see by the following post dated 2-7-02 Ibee went it alone on
deciphering and reporting the defining factors surrounding what has come to
be known around here as the Dry Matrix Formulation! He asked for assistance
back then and since nobee stepped up to the challenge, he painstakingly broke
it down!
And what a coincidental title!wareami: "Don't drink and hive" (Stimulants)
Ibee still hides from those damn bushes and the occassional branchpeeps! But
only as a result of the effort directly applied!
See...I could have just as easily posted 
But that wouldn't bee true!
Ibee's voices said GoiterJoe is alright in thare book!
It's 4:30am! Do you know ware your voices are?
Peace of
the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE
Everything
Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
ô¿ôWareami
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geezmeister
(Bee of the Month)
10-29-02 00:07
No 373791
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methocel
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Methocel is encountered in OTC non-time release formulations. Two or three
years ago several of the easy-to-clean OTC's added methocel to foil straight
alcohol extractions. None of these were time release formulations. Water did
not help one bit trying to extract the pseudo then, and it does not help now.
The heavier weight polyethylene glycols are used in time release formulations
because they are slow to dissolve in a warm aqueous saline enviroment. These
are selected to allow the bioavailability of the pseudoephedrine molecule at
different lengths of time from ingestion. They are soluble in water but this
does not mean that they separate from the spseudo HCl in the presence of
water. It is the glycol that dissolves in the water and not the encapsulated
HCl.
How soaking these molecules in water would somehow make the pseudo HCl
available for alcohol extraction escapes me. As soon as the PEG is stripped
from the pseudo HCl molecule, that molecule will be water soluble. The pseudo
HCl will not remain in the pill mass with water present. There will be no
pseudo HCl available in the pill mass to extract with alcohol. I assume that
with a sufficient soak, the peg would be stripped from the pseudo HCl and one
could base the water solution and extract the freebase with non-polar
solvent. Why one would want to do this when a waterless alternative yields in
excess of 90% yields of pure freebase crystals of pseudoephedrine escapes me.
Goiter-- please fill me in on how a water presoak of these time release pills
will allow for an alcohol extraction. I do not understand.
Mostly
harmless
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wareami
(Hive Addict)
10-29-02 00:47
No 373808
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Fortunatrly:
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Ibeee obviously csnoot proceed...
lert this be a lesson!
God I love ya guys!
Bye
Peace dewwdss!
Everything
Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
ô¿ôWareami
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zibarium
(Naked)
10-29-02 01:39
No 373830
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i
guess no bee likes to pressure cook with tone
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never tried it, but maybee soon. its sounds dangerous, doesn't it?
zib dreamt that he was surprised to bee able to wear out some of this shit
with relentless acetone assault.
it felt very primitive...like beating a mammoth over the head with a huge
club for hours...but managed 50%, with (in retrospect) pretty sloppy chops. i
think it took 8 or 9 boils...each time doing a test with a drop in water to
see what crashed. (this was after de-redding; 3 meoh pulls w/filtering)
probably wouldn't work now. but i wonder about the effects of prolonged
pressure cooking with a solvent.
it sucked to dream of boiling tone, because it wants to run away and ruin
your life. and one doesn't want to seal it shut. (or DO they?)
they do. if they are absolutely sure about the safety of the set up.
i believe it could bee closer to absolute safety than the alternative...that
of allowing hot , flammable gasses that give you cancer to bee wafting around
your room and into the neighbor's window.
btw, anybee know what the highest temp psuedo ephidrine could handle in
acetone? assuming the bp of the 'tone was augmented thru pressure
confinement. bp of tone is so low...is it possible that it could
preform greater wonders at a higher temp? one most of us have never
experienced, yet it would still be below water's bp?
unless some bee has done any of the solvent washes in a pressure containment
device, then we have all been limited to the bp temp of those solvent's
potential.
could there bee another world beyond that window of standard pressure?
(zib still working on the see-thru sub-marine pressure cooker within a
pressure cooker, which changes the whole equation about the trouble with
pressure, and if he ever boils acetone again, it will definitely bee
underwater)
so there.
i just wanted to break up a fight beefore it happened.
ibee seems a bit smashed to take on g-joe now..and geez is too much hippy to
give a redneck much trouble. g-joe has been trying to piss me off for
awhile. but i'm too much hippy too.
maybee tommorow all 3 of us love bunnies can kick goiter's butt?
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goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
10-29-02 02:28
No 373850
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that's
cool zib
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I just hope you aren't planning on bringing encrypted words to a gunfight.
As far as the water pulls working, most of the bees here that used to do them
boiled the water off in a microwave instead of basifying or evaporating
otherwise. I didn't think polyethylene glycol had much binding power,
seeing as how all the patents I've read on time released pills indicated that
different methocel variations were what caused the time release affect.
All
paths are the same: they lead nowhere
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Hammer
(Hive Bee)
10-29-02 07:00
No 373932
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doo
bee fuckin do
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Re: Ibee cannot and will not offer suggestions about boiling flammable
chemicals to a newbee for something as trivial as making a recreational
substance!
That's your choice and despite what you may think I respect you and the
contribution you've made. Just don't dump on the ones who decide they want
to.
Zib, I chose your words in the following post only because you posted a lot
of questions I'd like answered myself, don't take offence to my sarcastic
answers, I've gotten my share of them myself and nothing is directed at you
personally, you just make good point's and I used this as an example.
Re: I guess no bee likes to pressure cook with tone,never tried it, but
maybee soon. its sounds dangerous, doesn't it?
Not to someone who get's paid to play with fire and melt pieces of
metal together for a living.
RE: it sucked to dream of boiling tone, because it wants to run away and ruin
your life. and one doesn't want to seal it shut. (or DO they?)
they do. if they are absolutely sure about the safety of the set up.
All I can say to that is I get paid to work on shit most people would
consider dangerous and they wouldn't go near. You can go turn a light on in
your house because of people like me, your army can fly planes made of
materials most countries can only dream about because of people like me.
Don't dump on me if I decide to spend my playtime the same way just because
you don't have the balls to climb that hill.
Re: i believe it could bee closer to absolute safety than the
alternative...that of allowing hot , flammable gasses that give you cancer to
bee wafting around your room and into the neighbor's window.
If you follow the established method's such as using a fume hood when you
boil flammable solvent's you won't be breathing cancer causeing fumes and if
you vent it the way you're supposed to, niether will your neighbor.
RE: btw, anybee know what the highest temp psuedo ephidrine could handle in
acetone?
I know for a fact it can handle all you can put on it at atomospheric
pressure and not boil the pot over. With favorable results. Don't ask
me to write out a chemical equation and explain the mechanism. I just know
that it works and more work needs to be done in this area. BE a doubting
thomas, I don't care, just don't dump on me at the mere Idea cause most
mf'ers around here don't have the balls to do it cause they're
"skeered"
Re: assuming the bp of the 'tone was augmented thru pressure confinement. bp
of tone is so low...is it possible that it could preform greater wonders at a
higher temp? one most of us have never experienced, yet it would still be
below water's bp?
That's question's I've had for a long time and no bee here can
give me an answer along with the pressure, temp at which it happens OR
doesn't happen, etc etc etc. Nobody that I know of has posted any reaction
under pressure and even turned over the data proving it to me one way or the
other. Those who have run pressure extractions tell me they'd jump on doing
experiments agian if they had the resources. There must be a reason for this
? Ya'll Reckon ?
RE: unless some bee has done any of the solvent washes in a pressure
containment device, then we have all been limited to the bp temp of those
solvent's potential.
No shit...and until the one's who have post ALL the data like
time
temp
pressure
solvent used
starting material
yeilds
NOBODY can draw a reasonable conclusion. If I've overlooked such data someone
please pm me with such data so I can quite making a fool of myslef.
RE: could there bee another world beyond that window of standard pressure?
Nobody has proved it to me one way or another and I've spent many hours on
here to answer that question and I still don't have the answer's so I'm going
to do it myslef then I'll know for sure if a lame duck can fly.
RE: (zib still working on the see-thru sub-marine pressure cooker within a
pressure cooker, which changes the whole equation about the trouble with
pressure, and if he ever boils acetone again, it will definitely bee
underwater)
YEa I see that headline right now :
BEE blinded by trying to run a pressurized rxn looking through a window he
really didn't know how to install in the first place and it shattered in his
face.ANd having no experience with pressure vessal's stuck a piece of
plexiglass in there not knowing the nature of hot steam or solvents.
Don't fuck with glass and pressurized reaction, I'm not saying it can't be
done, I know it can .
What I am saying is don't complicate a complicated situation ever more by
adding more variables that don't have to be in the eqaution just to satisfy
your own curiosity of what's happening inside. Let the data speak for itself.
As far as the rest goes, if anyone can contribute to this subject and post
the data that I'd like to see...please do.
If you have a closed mind and think you know it all don't dump on people who
aren't scared to crawl in holes you don't have the nerve to.
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zibarium
(Naked)
10-29-02 08:15
No 373948
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zib
ain't scairt
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but hammer may have missed zib's point.
when you mentioned the fume hood is when i thought i had lost you.
i understand that stuff.
do you understand that acetone will reach a higher temperature when confined
by pressure?
and that my query into the possibilities was in regard to greater solvent
action that might bee had thru this avenue?
i'm not afraid of what i understand.
in an abstract way, i'd like to dialog about that which i comprehend, which i
don't sense much counter comprehension in so far.
for instance, zib mentioned in his dream he boiled the fuck out of acetone.
what part of that story gave you the impression that i was skeered to do
that?
instead of giving one decent unit of feedback as far as what might happen if
the acetone was allowed to get hotter, you have chosen to hide behind a bunch
of macho nonsense.
my post was not about pressurized rxns....it was about the effect of raising
the bp of solvents for the purpose of cleaning sudo.
dumping on my other idea; assuming i was a plexiglass sort of bee that was
asking for a shrapnel experience, almost pissed me off.
the token suck-up at the start of your b.s. actually did piss me off.
benifit of the doubt tells me that i don't explain myself well...and he lets
it go at that.
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geezmeister
(Bee of the Month)
10-29-02 08:48
No 373953
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recent
research
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Some recent research into PEG resulted in the discovery that different
molecular weights of polyethylene glycol is in fact used as the time release
agent in a number of OTC medicines that use HCl salt form molecules of the
active ingredient. The glycols dissolve slowly in the warm saline environment
of the bloodstream and when they are completely dissolved the HCl becomes
bioavailable. The PEG encapsulates the salt, so to speak, until the PEG is
completely dissolved. The fact that some of the medicine is delivered in a
form that becomes available nearly ten hours after ingestion suggests that
different weights of PEG may be used to give different absorption times.
There is additional literature that suggests these gycols also become
nonpolar soluble when exposed to moisture in the presence of NaOH in
particular.
I used this model to tweak the waterless a/b method for extracting pseudo
from generic 120's. The presence of any significant amount of water during
freebase extraction process seemed to extract the PEG with the pseudo.
The waterless a/b technique succeeds in extracting very clean pseudo without
extracting the glycols. The straight to Bee method avoided PEG by slow
precipitation of freebase pseudo crystals in the nonpolar solvent used to
extract it from the GUPs.
Goiterjoe's suggestion of boiling the GUPs in water to strip the PEG has
support in the literature, which also notes that boiling the PEG in saline
solutions under certain undisclosed conditions caused the PEG to separate
into one aqueous phase and the other ingredients into another, which allowed
their separation using a separatory funnel. I have been unable to locate more
specific informaton on this particular phenomenon, which would be useful if
it could be used to clean PEG from meth post-reaction.
Earlier this year there was a thread titled "Cut the Cryptic and Post
Some Sense" to which Goiterjoe contributed goiterjoe: "I agree, it's hilarious" (General
Discourse). Take a look Joe. Have you added to the problem or
contributed to it? What pills does this work with, have you done the process,
seen it done, what were the yields, and what other steps are involved? We'd
love to have a writeup if you can find the time. There are two or three
extraction technique threads developed in response to the "Cut the
Cryptic" post that might be useful as far as format is concerned.
You agreed the folks in Stimulants needed to do a better, more thorough,
plainer job of expressing their methods here. We don't mind you slumming, but
what's sauce for the goose...is sauce for Goiterjoe.
ZIB: Dwarfer's PP/SS Acetone posts are right on point with what you
have in mind. dwarfer: "Sheer Shear, and Stealing from
WareamI" (Stimulants)
Mostly
harmless
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Hammer
(Hive Bee)
10-29-02 08:52
No 373957
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There
was no specific thing i said directed at ...
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There was no specific thing i said directed at you zib..you missed my whole
point. I just used your words as a somewhat analogy to newbees or those who
ask similier questions .
re:do you understand that acetone will reach a higher temperature when
confined by pressure?
and that my query into the possibilities was in regard to greater solvent
action that might bee had thru this avenue?
the answer 2 both of those questions is yes.
re: for instance, zib mentioned in his dream he boiled the fuck out of
acetone.
what part of that story gave you the impression that i was skeered to do
that?
absoulutly none. If you unerstood what I said about using some of what you
said as an anology. ...i'll leave it at that
re:benifit of the doubt tells me that i don't explain myself well
funny i was about to say the same thing.
since you couldn't iscern the parts of my post that pertained to solvent extractions
and the parts that had to do with pessurized rxn's I'll assume you don't know
much about either one.
re: the token suck-up at the start of your b.s. actually did piss me off.
If I were trying to fuck you brother I wouldn't give you benefeit of any
grease. I was trying to show a little respect.Since obviously it went over
your head don't expect an attempt by me to do it again. I don't suck
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Beeman
(Hive Bee)
10-29-02 15:54
No 374059
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Remember!
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WAR on Drugs Clock!
Quick History of the War and its
Propaganda
Perhaps a look at the reasons for the WOD would be useful. One very concrete
set of ideas, I believe, have contributed to this being the most effective
psychological war on the American people yet. This set is drawn from many
areas, but the ideas are all codified in the explicit end of a
"war" on an object of moral outrage.
The American people have managed to keep themselves in line (with the help of
the rich and the media) for nearly 50 years up to a few years ago, all of us
singing (hand in hand) the national anthem of anti-communism. This was a
cause which united the people, or maybe more accurately stated, scared the
people. They were scared of being libeled as communists, of communist
invasion, of the dire and real threat of communism somehow managing to take
over a more powerful idea which American’s liked to call (however
inaccurately), capitalism.
Terrorism could be a wonderful excuse for our continued neo-colonialism,
intervention, and bloated budgets. Yet, someone must've figured along the way
that humans are fallible and even the best of enemies (as the Soviets proved)
can get soft and give up fighting. US policy makers had a dandy idea to this
problem: make the enemy an inanimate object, like, say, drugs!
Non-living enemies, such as drugs, are things we can demonize and demonize
without anyone worrying about eventually realizing the inhumanity of such
accusations. With objects bearing the brunt of this ideological attack, we
could not only keep the US's standard as a military superpower justified, but
also appear to win against it, since, obviously, these inanimate objects
couldn't possibly out-fight us, or out-maneuver us.
Teamwork
Its
amazing how the little B steps we make into each other's lives, somehow leave
footprints.
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Jetson
(Title Addict/Eraser)
10-29-02 16:02
No 374062
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ok
ok, break it up......
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sorry to interrupt but to answer goiterjoe's question to jetson- well
as soon as he gets all the numbers together he'll post em for ya. it's
been a rough weekend. he and jane had their anniversary. oh and
to top that off he thinks the rxn in question by goiter was a good two or
three rxn's ago. so must not've been that bad eh?
the devil is so lonely
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MnkyBoy78
(Stranger)
10-30-02 08:16
No 374420
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Right
there Black and White
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Right there if its not believed as to werami's post! mnkyboy77: "Re: Let's Play...Connect The
DOTS!!!" (Stimulants)
Ibee...No one stepped up to the plate to assist?
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peregrine
(Newbee)
10-31-02 19:09
No 375062
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Jetson
method
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Did you heat the d.alcohol first?Nice post,I likey.I was thinking of setting
up two filters when decanting tetra to get it out quicker.I was able to get
the red off by heating tone on very low heat and swirling with my hand.It
took close to two hours to do it.
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peregrine
(Newbee)
10-31-02 21:00
No 375116
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tetra
wash
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I grinded up 580 red hots and poured tetra at least four times the
amount.Stired for about 20 seconds and could start to see foam gathering at
top.I tried to pour through pre sat. filter but it all gumed up.I think maybe
I did too many pills.I'll let it dry out and try again.I need help.Should I
try less next time? The spent tetra does look milky but I'm sure it sat in
the filter too long.I think one of my problems is having the filter in the
funnel too deep.Not enough drain area.Shit I don't know.I'll take a nap and
try again.
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